July 30th, 2007
Boycott Chase Bank
Let me tell you a story about Chase Bank that I myself can hardly believe actually happened. I bank with USAA, the absolute best bank in the world, but a few weeks ago I sold a couple books to a neighbor for a total of $60. He wrote me a check drawn on Chase Bank.
USAA doesn’t have branches. When you need to make a deposit, you mail your deposit to them (it’s quick and easy, and they provide the postage-paid envelopes), or, you can scan the check and deposit slip, upload the images to them online, and they will instantly credit your account (actually, you still need to mail the originals to them after the fact). These are the days of direct deposit, so I only mail in checks infrequently. No ATMs is no problem, because I can use any ATM, and they reimburse me the fees charged, up to $18 a month. I never withdraw cash more than a few times a month, so my fees are never more than $10 or $12, all of which gets reimbursed to me.
Since I had this check from my neighbor, drawn on Chase Bank, I figured that rather than use an ATM to withdraw cash, next time I needed some I would just go into a Chase Bank branch and cash it. USAA is so good to me, I try to save them a few bucks whenever I can.
So I go into a Chase Bank branch, wait in line, and when I finally speak with the teller, she asks me if I am a Chase Bank customer. I say no, and she promptly informs me that they cannot cash the check.
“Why not?” I ask. After all, I have plenty of identification. What does it make a difference whether I am a Chase customer? They are only allowed to cash checks for Chase customers, she insists. Just to make sure she understands what I’m trying to do, I explain it again: I am not trying to cash one of my checks drawn on another bank, nor am I trying to deposit the check into a Chase Bank account. I am trying to get cash from one of their customer’s accounts on the basis of the check he wrote me.
She won’t budge. This is clearly an absurdity, so I ask to speak with her supervisor. She asks me to step to the side while she makes a phone call. After waiting a few minutes, a young man in his 20s, the customer service agent, comes up to ask how he can help. I go through the whole thing with him and he affirms what the teller said. Since I’m not a Chase Bank customer, they won’t cash the check.
“What am I supposed to do with it?” I ask.
“Deposit it at your bank,” he tells me, “or open an account with us.”
“Why should I have to deposit it at my bank?” I ask. “If I sign it over to my bank, all that happens is that my bank will present it on my behalf to Chase Bank for payment. Why would you accept the demand of my bank, which is only my agent, and not give me myself the money right now?”
“It’s our policy.” They won’t even make an exception for a pushy person like me.
I ask to speak to his boss. He goes back into an office and comes back a few minutes later telling me that the assistant branch manager will be out soon. A few more minutes pass, and she comes out, a black woman in her 40s, clearly very jittery about what she expects is going to be a confrontation.
I feel bad, because I don’t want to make her nervous. I just want to understand this ludicrous policy. I am very firm but try to be persuasive rather than aggressive. After going through the whole thing again, she stands firm. They will not, under any circumstances, cash that check unless I open an account with them.
“Our obligations are to our customers,” she says.
Oh really? Take a look at a check. Notice the words printed just to the left of the blank spot for the payee’s name. The Chase Bank check I received says “Pay to the order of,” followed by my name, and the sum is printed on the next line.
What kind of sentence is that, “Pay to the order of … the sum of $60″? Is it a question? Is it a simple declarative sentence like “The sky is blue”? Is it an exclamation like “Yee haw!” No, it is an imperative, an instruction, one might even say a command.
Who is giving the instruction? The guy whose check it is, my neighbor. Who is he giving the instruction to? His bank, the company that he has entrusted his money to, namely Chase Bank. What is his instruction to them, as their customer? “Pay to the order of Phillip Dennis the sum of $60.”
Their obligations are to their customers, but they flagrantly disregard their customers’ instructions. They were stiff-necked to the end and wouldn’t cash the check.
I stopped by other large banks to ask what they would do in a similar situation, and got a very different answer from them. As long as I could identify myself as the payee, they were obligated to cash the check. That’s what a check is, an instruction from the account holder to the bank to pay a certain amount to the payee.
If this had happened 100 years ago, this would have started a rumor that Chase Bank is insolvent and caused a run on the bank.
What’s the reasoning behind their policy? Isn’t it obvious? They don’t want to provide any service to people who aren’t generating revenue for them. Never mind that they want to charge you $2 to use an ATM, if you’re not a customer, you will get no service whatsoever from a teller, not even to cash a check drawn on their own bank. They also want to sign up new customers, since people who cash checks usually don’t have other banking relationships (otherwise they would just deposit the check). One more thing: by not cashing checks, they lengthen the amount of time before they have to make good on it, which means that they earn more interest on their account with the Federal Reserve. It’s good old-fashioned greed, and a mild but genuine form of the social evil Walter Rauschenbusch preached against early in the last century.
There’s one other thing I’m not happy with about Chase Bank. In the last couple months, I have been getting direct mail pieces from their student loan department that look like official mail. They’re in plain white business envelopes that say only “Student Loan Department” in the return address window. There’s nothing about Chase Bank on the envelope, so you don’t know who it is from. What bothers me is the big red rubber stamp across the front that says “2nd ATTEMPT.” I got another one later that says “FINAL ATTEMPT.” Naturally, I opened them up to see if I had somehow missed a student loan payment, but no, it is an advertisement for Chase Bank’s student consolidation loans. I have no relationship with Chase Bank whatsoever–no loans, no bank or credit card accounts.
They’re counting on the fact that people will open it up because it looks official and makes you think you’ve missed a payment. It makes me angry because if anyone else sees it (such as my mailman), won’t he also think I’m missing payments? Won’t he think it’s a collection effort? That’s what they want it to look like. As far as I am concerned, Chase Bank is defaming me.
Lots of other people, it seems, have had problems with Chase Bank too. Read these posts: Boycott Chase Bank and Customer Disservice. Some of the stories in their comments are hair-raising. Clearly Chase Bank is a despicable company.
I’m thinking about hiring a lawyer. This kind of unethical business practice has got to be stopped. I will never again give a $2 ATM surcharge to Chase Bank, and I hope you won’t either. If you’re looking for loans, credit cards, or a bank–BEWARE OF CHASE BANK!
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July 31st, 2007 at 12:34 am
darn tootin’ that is really aggravating! i will join you in your boycott. man, that is just unethical.
August 1st, 2007 at 10:50 am
Hoooollly crap… I too am a loyal USAA customer. I cannot believe how incredible they are, and reading things like this about Chase really help me to reappreciate them. That is just nuts.
I did have an incident with them a few years ago, where someone stole my identity, signed me up for a credit card with them, and starting buying online porn. Not a good time, let me tell you. They insisted on billing me, no matter that my identity had been stolen, until I reported them to the better business bureau.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Chase should honor the presentment of the check, however, they are not liable to you for dishonoring it. A body of law called the Uniform Commercial Code controls here. Section 3-409 of the UCC states that “the drawee is not liable on the instrument until he accepts it” The drawee is the bank and you are the recipient of the instrument, in this case a check. The bank did not accept the check for payment, so you have no recourse against the bank. According to Section 3-122(e), “[a] cause of action against a drawer of a draft or an indorser of any instrument accrues upon demand following dishonor of the instrument.” The “drawer” is the person who wrote you the check. Therefore, the drawer is liable to you. Further, Section 4-402 states “[a] payor bank is liable to its customer for damages proximately caused by the wongful dishonor of an item.” Therefore, the bank is liable to the person who wrote you the check in the event that you enforce your rights against that person for payment.
From a practical perspective, Chase is probably trying to limit check fraud by letting only their own customers present checks for payment. If the check is forged and Chase pays, then Chase may be out the money. If Chase allows you to negotiate the check through another back who thereafter draws upon Chase for payment, Chase at least knows one more thing than it knew in your scenario: the purported payee has been vetted for an account at another financial institution who, presumably, has valid information about your identity.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
You must be a lawyer or something.
Okay, so they’re within their rights. Thanks for the research, Mark. (I have to assume you don’t have all that memorized.) Even so, they should allow their staff at the branch to use personal judgment in small cases. This was only a $60 check. Fie on them! See, I told you on Sunday I was judgmental.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I will join your boycott against Chase but I will also Biycott USAA as they engage in information mining. I have had terrible experiences with USAA and am looking for a better alternative. USAA is “Big Brother” as the try to mine information regarding your family and want all your business (i.e. Banking, Credit Card & Insurance.) I strongly urge other not to use USAA.
Thanks,
PCOII
May 13th, 2008 at 11:01 am
That’s funny that you say that, Patrick, because I love having USAA handle a lot of my financial services. My retirement accounts are with Vanguard, and my life insurance policy is with AAA, so I don’t have everything with USAA — at least not yet! — but I’m always tempted to move those to USAA as well. I just find it extremely convenient to deal with one company for a variety of my needs, especially since I have always had only agreeable experiences with USAA — in contrast to other banking, insurance, and investment relationships I’ve had in the past with other companies. Plus, USAA’s website has that rare combination of ease of use and real functionality: it turns out I can have my cake and eat it too!
Patrick, if your concern is privacy, I’m afraid there might be nowhere to hide in the modern age of electronic finance. The mattress might be your best bet. But then who will you buy your homeowner’s policy from?
May 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I think someone needs to ask Koontz if it is unconsionable to require an individual to have a bank account in order to collect on a promissory note.
I\’m not an attorney, but it is ridiculous to say you can\’t collect unless you\’ve paid another banking institution. It would be great if enough people stopped accepting Chase checks that they became useless, but that is a pipe dream - and I don\’t smoke that pipe.
I DID, unfortunately, find out that Chase just bought my mortgage from Wachovia - huge sigh on that one.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Chase is deceptive!
I used my card often for day to day expenses, and always pay the full balance when due. After using the card on a big expense, and deciding to pay it off over a 3 month period Chase MOVED MY PAYMENT DUE DATE FORWARD by a week! I ended up finding this out the day I was due, and had to pay $30+ for a rush processing fee so I wouldn’t be considered late.
According to customer service, this is standard practice. They change payment due dates at their discretion. They would not waive my rush processing fee, nor could they guarantee this would never happen to me in the future. This is deceptive. I have never experienced such practices with other credit card companies.
I will never again use JP Morgan, or Chase for any of my financial transactions. Boycott JP Morgan Chase & Company!
August 21st, 2008 at 8:44 am
I had the same experience with my payroll check. Twice. In September, my company gave me a live check due to a change in their payroll system. I went to two Chase banks. The first would not cash it. The second one would not cash it and the teller that was working with me gave me attittude. It got worse when the teller next to her chimed in and made me feel so small as to why I was cashing my check at the bank. I told the teller that I haven’t been in a bank since 1999 because I deal strictly with electronic transactions and my company had caused this issue. The teller just scoffed.
Few months later, guess who is the vendor at my company? Chase. One of the Chase managers from a local branch that is scheduled to open corner me. She tried to solict me to join the bank. I told her about my experience. The manager explained they had heard alot of complaints from employees at my company on the day we all received live checks and they were working “aggressively” to fix the customer service issues at the banks. As incentive, the manager said, “For your inconvenience we would like to deposit $50 in your account. The $50 is from Chase saying how sorry we are.” It seemed nice, but I remember from my earlier incident on how I felt at the bank and refused. Glad I did because they got me again.
About a year later we had another payroll issue where I got another live check. Went to Chase again since they said they were sorry and all. Chase refused again. This time I had my mother with me who had retired from a bank that was much larger than Chase. My mother explained at her bank as long as you went to one of their branches they would cash your check. The manager at the Chase bank said this is their rules and they would not cash my check.
So, we leave a deposit the check in my bank. A week and a half later the check still hasn’t cleared. I called my bank to find out why and my bank says they are having an issue with Chase turning over funds for the check
I currently having a very, very long conversation with the head of my company’s human resources about this issue.
NEVER AGAIN CHASE! When I drive by a branch, I give them the one finger salute.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:46 am
I had the same experience with my payroll check. Twice. In September, my company gave me a live check due to a change in their payroll system. I went to two Chase banks. The first would not cash it. The second one would not cash it and the teller that was working with me gave me attittude. It got worse when the teller next to her chimed in and made me feel so small as to why I was cashing my check at the bank. I told the teller that I haven\’t been in a bank since 1999 because I deal strictly with electronic transactions and my company had caused this issue. The teller just scoffed.
Few months later, guess who is the vendor at my company? Chase. One of the Chase managers from a local branch that is scheduled to open corner me. She tried to solict me to join the bank. I told her about my experience. The manager explained they had heard alot of complaints from employees at my company on the day we all received live checks and they were working \”aggressively\” to fix the customer service issues at the banks. As incentive, the manager said, \”For your inconvenience we would like to deposit $50 in your account. The $50 is from Chase saying how sorry we are.\” It seemed nice, but I remember from my earlier incident on how I felt at the bank and refused. Glad I did because they got me again.
About a year later we had another payroll issue where I got another live check. Went to Chase again since they said they were sorry and all. Chase refused again. This time I had my mother with me who had retired from a bank that was much larger than Chase. My mother explained at her bank as long as you went to one of their branches they would cash your check. The manager at the Chase bank said this is their rules and they would not cash my check.
So, we leave a deposit the check in my bank. A week and a half later the check still hasn\’t cleared. I called my bank to find out why and my bank says they are having an issue with Chase turning over funds for the check
I currently having a very, very long conversation with the head of my company\’s human resources about this issue.
NEVER AGAIN CHASE! When I drive by a branch, I give them the one finger salute.
March 7th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Chase should be the one out of business.
I had a checking and saving account with them for over 3 years.
They rob me with their fees. It makes me paying 3 times more than the intertest I earn.
Had a chase credit card for 6 years.Never been late. Always pay 3-5 days in advance. Never earn any rewards or anything on it. After I enrolled in paperless statement and made a first online payment. That is only a $10 balance. So I was thinking uh it save me sometime to go to the branch.I received a confirmation saying that payment was received.
Today I just found out, there is a $39 return check fee and late fee on my account. That is ridiculous to pay $50 for a $10 statement. That is robbery. I just called them. Reps and supervisors would not wavie the fees.Then I got transfered to the so called “account specialist”, insist that the return check fee could not be wavied. Because it is in the user agreement and decision has already been made.Then I asked him to close the account after 6 years of robbery. Ironically He offer me a “chase perfect card”(3% back on gas). He cracks me up “Do you want to earn some rewards on these fees? I can not do anything about the fees, but I could give you some reward cards.” I was thinking in order to get that $39 reward I need to spend at least $3900.
He is still trying to sell some crab to an angry customer. That retention rep is funny. I do not blame them. They are trained to act like robots without conscience and sympathy. 1 supervisor told me ” That unfortune things happen to all of us, include myself”
Boycott them and make them out of business.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:33 pm
We are banding together.
Join us.
Jen
October 11th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I would suggest for others to take the check back to the person who wrote it.
I found this article after reading about how Chase forces people to repay credit cards faster than they can OR raises their interest rates. They are just another evil corporation that doesn\’t care about their own customers let alone people who are NOT their customer.
Tell someone who gives you a check from Chase: sorry but your bank doesn\’t cash your check. I don\’t know why they won\’t cash it, but they wont. Maybe they aren\’t a good bank. Maybe they are greedy. Maybe they don\’t trust you to write checks. Who knows?
FYI - I use Patelco and am extremely happy with my credit union.